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Live from Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir! HH Bhanu Swami

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Darshan arati (Deities new dresses), midnight abhishek (bathing the Deities at midnight, the time of Lord Krishna's birth), huge crowds in the temple, scenes from the temple area, road scene at night.

Sri Krishna Janmastami @ ISKCON Baroda, Gujarat, India 2009 -2

Live from Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir! HH Bhanu Swami

Live from Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir! HH Bhanu Swami

[Notes: This lecture was transcribed by Madri DD. ]

Date: February 5, 2010 Verse: Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.32.22 Speaker: HH Bhanu Swami

tasmat tvam sarva-bhavena bhajasva paramesthinam tad-gunasrayaya bhaktya bhajaniya-padambujam

TRANSLATION: My dear mother, I therefore advise that you take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for His lotus feet are worth worshiping. Accept this with all devotion and love, for thus you can be situated in transcendental devotional service.

PURPORT: The word paramesthinam is sometimes used in connection with Brahma. paramesthi means “the supreme person.” As Brahma is the supreme person within this universe, Krsna is the Supreme Personality in the spiritual world. Lord Kapiladev advises His mother that she should take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, because it is worthwhile. Taking shelter of demigods, even those in the highest positions, like Brahma and Siva, is not advised herein. One should take shelter of the Supreme Godhead.

Sarva-bhavena means “in all-loving ecstasy.” Bhava is the preliminary stage of elevation before the attainment of pure love of Godhead. It is stated in Bhagavad-gita, budha bhava-samanvitah: [Bg. 10.8] one who has attained the stage of bhava can accept the lotus feet of Lord Krsna as worshipable. This is also advised here by Lord Kapila to His mother. Also significant in this verse is the phrase tad-gunasrayaya bhaktya. This means that discharging devotional service unto Krsna is transcendental; it is not material activity. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gita: those who engage in devotional service are accepted to be situated in the spiritual kingdom. Brahma-bhuyaya kalpate: [Bg. 14.26] they at once become situated in the transcendental kingdom.

Devotional service in full Krsna consciousness is the only means for attaining the highest perfection of life for the human being. This is recommended herein by Lord Kapila to His mother. Bhakti is therefore nirguna, free from all tinges of material qualities. Although the discharge of devotional service appears to be like material activities, it is never saguna, or contaminated by material qualities. Tad-gunasrayaya means that Lord Krsna’s transcendental qualities are so sublime that there is no need to divert one’s attention to any other activities. His behavior with the devotees is so exalted that a devotee need not try to divert his attention to any other worship.

It is said that the demoniac Putana came to kill Krsna by poisoning Him, but because Krsna was pleased to suck her breast, she was given the same position as His mother. Devotees pray, therefore, that if a demon who wanted to kill Krsna gets such an exalted position, why should they go to anyone other than Krsna for their worshipful attachment? There are two kinds of religious activities: one for material advancement and the other for spiritual advancement. By taking shelter under the lotus feet of Krsna, one is endowed with both kinds of prosperity, material and spiritual. Why then should one go to any demigod? [End of Srila Prabhupada’s purport]

HH Bhanu Swami: So this is a very conclusive verse and we will see in the purport that Srila Prabhupada also has given us a very decisive conclusion, As we know the Srimad Bhagavatam is the final word in all spiritual literature. And what is the conclusion? The conclusion is that we should worship Krishna, no devata, and not even any other form of the Lord - just Krishna because he is svayam Bhagavan and we should not perform any other activities even though those activities maybe mentioned in the scripture. Of course we shouldn’t do the unscriptural activities but even the scriptural activities we don’t do.

So we have the activities of karma, jnana and yoga mentioned in the scriptures, even those we shouldn’t do. So sometimes we may get a little confused especially because even the Bhagavatam talks about these things and we will see in Bhagavad-gita also it takes place. For instance we have a conversation between Krishna and Arjuna in Bhagavad-gita and Krishna discusses jnana and karma in the first six chapters and then finally gets to bhakti in chapter seven and then He goes back to jnana again in chapters thirteen and fourteen up to eighteen again. So we may get a little confused by all of this.

Similarly Lord Kapila does the same thing. The teachings of Kapila begin half way through the third canto of Bhagavatam. First there is the story of Kapila, how he was born etc, etc and how Devahuti was there with Kardama Muni etc. and then Kapila was born. So that goes on for four chapters. Then when Kapila begins teaching Devahuti we again get all of these teachings. What do we get?

We get bhakti in chapter twenty-five then we get jnana in chapter twenty-six, liberation according to jnana in chapter twenty-seven, we get astanga yoga in chapter twenty-eight. Whole chapters are dedicated to these subject matters and then we get bhakti in the gunas - tamo guna bhakti; rajo guna bhakti; and sattva guna bhakti and also pure bhakti in chapter twenty-nine. So we get a mixture of things just as Krishna presented to Arjuna - a mixture of things, karma, jnana astanga yoga and bhakti yoga.

So we get Kapila does the same thing. We will see the same thing taking place in the end of the Bhagavatam where Krishna instructs Uddhava, His dearmost devotee. And again we will find karma yoga, jnana yoga, astanga yoga and bhakti yoga. Everything is mentioned but we should not be confused. We should see the conclusion. This verse is actually the conclusion. So after stating all of that this is actually what is the conclusion, everything.

After doing the bona fide processes then Kapiladev goes on to speak of the unbona fide things - people that don’t even follow karma yoga. And then we get tamo guna, and tamo guna and rajo guna. Then finally we get a little rules and regulations in chapter thirty-two with the introduction of karma yoga again. And so this verse here actually comes after all of that description. We get the final conclusion with this verse after discussing all the karma yoga up until this point. Then we get this verse in which Kapila says, “Don’t do any of this karma yoga or jnana yoga or astanga yoga. Just do bhakti yoga.”

For instance we get in chapter thirty we get this whole description of what happens when you don’t follow anything. That is not even varnasram and karma yoga. If you don’t follow that then you just end up in a pretty bad mess. End up like that!

The next chapter describes what happens when you go into that position. You end up in a hellish position. You get all the awful punishments by the servants of Yamaraj. A whole chapter dedicated to that. And then you get born as an animal and then later you come back as a human being. Eventually you get the opportunity again. And then it describes how you get born. When you come out of the womb and then by bad association you fall into the same thing again. Commit sinful activities go get punished again, come back again. So this is the general tendency of people in the material world.

So karma yoga is there to help such people. So therefore chapter thirty-two, that is the present chapter that we are reading here, that discusses that don’t fall into that hellish position. We should get out of that position atleast.

One choice is to do karma yoga. So the strategy of the scriptures is let us start out gradually and so we will give them their enjoyment. They want to enjoy, they don’t want to follow any rules so they go to hell. So we will do something better than that. We will give them enjoyment but we will encourage them to follow some rules and regulations but still lure them with that enjoyment. So therefore these promises of Svargaloka and that and they worship devatas and as Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita if you worship devatas you get quick results. So they worship devatas and they get nice results.

The problem of course is that their punya gets exhausted and they fallback down to earth and they have to go back and do some more but at least we say it is preferable. You get the nice comforts of life. Anyone will opt for that definitely. (Laughter) So this is the way the Vedas and the sages have created a strategy to encourage people to follow the rules and regulations. So they start them out with karma yoga and varnasram and things like that. Even if you are in the lowest category you simply follow those rules. You can’t think too much and you just follow the rules. And there are not so many rules for the sudra. Follow all those rules then you don’t go to hell. Atleast you gradually elevate through the gunas and eventually get to sattva guna. Then you can go to Svargaloka. So this is the strategy for the people in the gunas - tamo guna, rajo guna.

Then when you get to sattva guna then you can do jnana. You can understand you are not the body and there are so many different bodies. You go to the scriptures and you understand that “I am spirit soul. I am atma.” So this is the level of jnana, sattva guna. So this is described in the eleventh canto where Krishna tell Uddhava that. He goes through all the gunas. Different things and different gunas - there He says that karma yoga is in rajo guna and tamo guna and jnana is in sattva guna - sattva guna sadhana.

So in karma yoga itself is also a presciption for sattva guna after you do your sakama karma yoga with all sorts of desires. And you follow rules and regulations and you get those desires fulfilled. The hope is that eventually you become less attached to those material objects. And you continue to follow the rules. So then you come to the level of niskama karma yoga. This is also described here in the Bhagavad-gita Krishna describes the level of sakama karma and niskama karma yoga. So this means that one elevates through tamo guna and rajo guna to sattva guna. Sattva guna means less material attachments. One gets enjoyment from detachment. And one has the tendency for knowledge. That means we understand we are not the material body. So that is the symptom of sattva guna,

We go from sakama karma yoga to niskama karma yoga. So these things are described in this chapter. Previously there was discussion of niskama karma yoga. People who do this they go to Brahmaloka actually. If you do this type of niskama karma yoga you end up in Brahmaloka. And then it describes how at the end of Brahma’s life you can even get liberation if you are very, very lucky. So this is another alternative. Instead of doing sakama karm yoga you do niskama karma yoga and even get liberation.

So in this way dharma, karma and moksa are covered here but of course superior to that is the jnana because by jnana one completely gives up all of the duties of karma yoga and simply concentrates on understanding we are not the body. We are atma and one strives for liberation. So that is even better than this where you may go to Brahmaloka, you may get sayujya or Vaikuntha but you can also fall down back into the material world. So those who are in jnana are definitely trying to get out of the material world.

We have all of these things discussed by Kapiladev - two types of karma yoga, jnana yoga and astanga yoga and bhakti yoga. He discusses that also. So we should not get confused and think that well we can follow any of these processes and get results. It is not true. There is actually a progression to follow. From karma yoga we go to jnana yoga, to astanga yoga and then to bhakti yoga. So at least you will have to follow that process but even that is rejected.

So Kapiladev does not recommend this process to Devahuti. She asked the question, “How do I get out of this material world? Actually she discusses all of this - do the karma yoga, do the jnana yoga, do astanga yoga and then he comes back. This is the final conclusion. This is the end of chapter thirty-two. Then chapter thirty-three again it is all bhakti yoga. And it’s included in bhakti yoga - chant the names of the Lord. That is how he concludes. Actually he rejects them all.

Why do we discuss all these things and then reject them? Why does he do that? Just as Krishna also discusses karma, jnana, astanga yoga, then bhakti yoga then He rejects everything. He says,

sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]

So we can make it much simple by describing bhakti yoga. Same here - he discusses all of these things then he comes back - just do bhakti. So as I said these things are discussed because they are scriptural and this is the gradual process but we should not become confused by this and therefore at the beginning of the Bhagavatam we have the story of Narada Muni speaking to Vedavyasa. Vedavyasa wrote works, Puranas with all rajo guna, tamo guna and sattva guna things in it. And then Narada Muni says, “Nonsense. Don’t do that. People in Kali-yuga will get confused. They are too lazy. They will get stuck.” You tell them to do your duties in tamo guna or raja guna. They will get stuck there. They won’t go any further. So you cannot recommend ths in Kali-yuga especially. Just tell them bhakti only. One process only! Not all these other processes even if you are in the gunas bhakti is the process.

So the Bhagavatam points out particularly the Supreme nature of bhakti here and of course in other teachings also. So bhakti is independent of everything and everything is dependant on bhakti, not other processes. So in other words bhakti does not depend on karma, jnana or yoga for success but jnana, karma and yoga depend on bhakti for their success. So we may not think how can that be true because we always think of them as separate but according to our acaryas, no. Even karma yoga cannot be successful unless there is a little bit of bhakti. Why because the Lord recommends this process. You reject the Lord how you can get His mercy to succeed even in karma yoga?

All these processes even if you want liberation you need a little bhakti. The whole principle of Bhagavatam is - Krishna is the source of everything and bhakti is the source of all the other processes. Everything else is dependant on all those other processes. Everything comes from Krishna. [Chuckles] So nothing is separate from Krishna. Everything gets its life from Krishna and bhakti. So you cannot separate all these other processes and do them separately but bhakti is directly concerned with Krishna and only Krishna. You can separate that from everything else - from tapas, yoga, jnana asram varna yajna, Vedas - all that - you can separate bhakti completely and there is no problem.

There is no sin incurred if we reject everything and just do bhakti. That is Krishna’s doing in Bhagavad-gita. There is no sin. Reject everything. You just do bhakti. No problem. So as Prabhupada mentions in the purport - bhakti is beyond the gunas. Everything else is in the gunas. So we have tamo guna, raja guna and sattva guna and then we have the processes - sakama karma yoga, niskama karma yoga, jnana and astanga yoga. All are in the gunas but of course we know that sattva guna is better than tamo guna or raja guna.

Therefore the jnana and the astanga yoga are superior to the karma yoga and niskama karma yoga is superior to sakama karma yoga. There is a hierarchy here but that is not complete. We still in the material world! We are all in sattva guna. We want to get out of the material world you have to do something nirguna. If you just do jnana, jnana is only in sattva guna. It is not transcendental in itself. It is not nirguna. How can something in the gunas get you beyond the gunas even to the point of impersonal liberation? It cannot do it. That is only sattva guna.

So all of these processes are gradual processes of development plus they are all dependant on bhakti for their success. So karma yoga cannot give even Svargaloka without recognition of Visnu. And jnana cannot be successful unless there is recognition of the Supreme Lord. We have a famous verse - Those people who neglect the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord fall down from liberation and they cannot get it. They cannot attain liberation because they reject the Lord. So all these other processes are dependant on bhakti.

If you do karma yoga there’s a little bhakti in this thing we will see the blue part - the non-bhakti portion. The pink part is the bhakti portion. You get a little part of bhakti. We don’t call it bhakti because its name is something else - karma yoga. You do karma yoga. You have to recognize Visnu. He has to be worshipped in all of your ceremonies atleast. He may not be a prominent portion but atleast you recognize the supreme and you get Svargaloka. And there is no recognition of bhakti. No bhakti there at all. Nothing. You don’t even get the Svargaloka. You go through liberation.

If you have that recognition of the Lord you can get your liberation. If you don’t recognize the Lord or you offend and say Krishna has a material body you don’t even get liberation. You don’t get the mercy of the Lord. In other words it is the Lord who is the source of jnana, tapa - all these things and if you don’t get His mercy then you cannot get the result. So you can’t get liberation from jnana if you neglect the Lord. So even if you do these processes they are not complete.

Karma yoga you still in the material world. You can go from Svargaloka to Brahmaloka. That is it. And you fall back down and do some karma and still go round with that. If you use jnana and you do a little bhakti yes you can get liberation, get out of the material body. That is as far as you get - out of the material body. But if you do bhakti without any other process you get the spiritual world, you develop you relationship with Krishna and rasa. So that is why we recommend this process, bhakti and not the other processes. That is why Kapiladev says this because the result is different. It is not the same result from all these different processes It is the final result.

If we do bhakti we can also mix it a little bit. So we got a little bit of karma yoga here - in the corner here, a little bit of material desires left. We can do that type of bhakti. Krishna accepts that - Bhagavad-gita - four types of people surrender to Krishna - people that have material desires, people that want to get out of the material world, people that are suffering, all those people fit here. They are different from those who are doing karma of jnana because it is mostly bhakti but they have that little tinge of other desires. They are not anyabhilasita-sunyam. [Cc Madhya
19.167] They got a little covering there. So they get better than the karmis or the jnanis.

The karmi goes to Svargaloka or Brahmaloka. So what does the karma misra bhakta get? He must get better than that. So yes he does. He can actually get sarupya, salokya, and sarsti in the spiritual world. That much he can get. What about the jnana misra bhakta? He is a little bit of jnana. Next to it is bhakti. Little bit of desire to escape from the material world and get peace and all that. He gets more than the jnani gets. The jnani has mostly jnana and a little bit bhakti. He gets liberation, impersonal liberation - merges in Brahman, sayuja. One who has bhakti with a little bit of jnana must go beyond that. So yes of course - spiritual world, develops a little relationship with the Lord, santa rasa.

Why santa rasa? Because he wants to be peaceful! That jnana mixture is there in his bhakti. So he wants peace. So he gets that in the spiritual world. This type of person will not appreciate the gopis. The gopis are not peaceful at all. They are always in anxiety. “Where is Krishna?” If they are separated from Krishna for one second they are disturbed. They pray that Brahma made a fault because he made eyelids. When we blink our eyelids we cannot see Krishna for a second so they curse Brahma because that one second when their eyelids close they cannot see Krishna causes separation. And they become very disturbed.

So the devotees of the spiritual world are subject to that especially when you go higher and higher in the rasas. So the people that want to be peaceful will not be very attracted to that. So they are very content with the santa rasa, a very peaceful relationship in the spiritual world. This is what happens when you get mixed bhakti. It is better than karma yoga, jnana yoga, astanga yoga with a little bhakti and of course if you do just without bhakti you get nothing. If you do karma yoga and astanga yoga with bhakti you get a result. If you do this you get better. All bhakti and no mixture then we get these develop relationships with the Supreme Lord, which is very satisfying.

This is what we mean by bhakti and this is what it is meant here sarva-bhavena Bhajasva. You worship the Supreme Lord with all bhava, all love. So this is what love is here - dasya, sakya, vatsalya and madhurya but to do that we have to be suddha - can’t have a mixture. So that is why at the beginning of Nectar of Devotion Rupa Goswami defines bhakti and no other desires - not covered by karma, jnana, yoga or anything else - no other desire except the desire to please Krishna. That is suddha bhakti. So by that sadhana we attain prema and all of these relationships - dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, engaged and madhurya.

That is describing all the different things, all the different processes then we come to this verse were it finally says, “Just do this.” Just surrender to the Lord and do bhakti. So that is the ultimate conclusion of everything. Then after this in the same chapter there is a very interesting phenomenon takes place here. There is this verse, which is very important because it shows the broad nature of our philosophy and it explains it also. Just as one object is substrate of many qualities as is perceived by the various senses in various ways so Bhagavan is perceived variously by various scriptural practices.

So according to your desire an your practice you can see the Lord but you will see Him a little differently. Same Lord but seeing Him differently! In other words it is not false. We don’t get false realization but the realization will be different according to how we worship the Lord, the particular process that we follow. So it is not that we disagree that other worship is not allowed but it may not be the best worship. That is all.

A nice example is given - we have object like milk and then we have our various senses. So with the eye we can look at milk and we get a certain knowledge that the milk is white and if we taste it with the tongue we say it is sweet, touch it - it is cool, by the nose - so it has got some fragrance. So each sense has got some knowledge of course each of these thinks itself as not milk. So many things are white, not just this milk but the eye will see white milk but there are other things also there. So if we combine it together that is from the tongue and the eye and the ear and all the senses, touch through the mind then we can get a complete conception of milk. We get all the qualities combined together through the mind - but individually no we get some partial realization of the object milk.

The Lord is like that also. We can perceive Him partially by one particular process just like the eye perceives the whiteness of the milk. So by karma yoga we can perceive the Lord as give of material results the go to Svargaloka and enjoy or by jnana - then we perceive the Lord as impersonal Brahman, some substance or something which no form and no qualities or activities - very peaceful and no material karma, no variation, dualities etc. So by one portion of the Lord we get certain qualities of the Lord manifest.

One type of sadhana will reveal certain amount of qualities but obviously it is not perfect just like whiteness of milk is not the truth about milk - little bit of truth but not the whole thing. So like this by different processes we can understand a little bit of the qualities of the Lord. We can appreciate something of the Lord.

If we realize Bhagavan then Bhagavan is the source of everything. So we can get everything. As Prabhupada says in the purport here that whatever you can get from karma and jnana and yoga you can get from bhakti also but you get more. So by bhakti - this particular process of bhakti we realize Bhagavan and then we can realize everything. So just as the mind realizes all the different qualities together from our different senses so by bhakti we realize the Lord and we realize the Lord perfectly, not just part of the Lord - this aspect of the Lord, that aspect of the Lord. We can realize all of the Lord. So that is the significance of bhakti.

The only problem where bhakti is the highest process so I am not qualified for that so I have to follow in tamo guna, I have to follow tamo guna process. That is what I will start with - karma yoga and be a sudra and work my way up and become a brahmana first. So then I can be qualified. Then get to jnana, then to yoga and then to bhakti. Many will think like that but no, bhakti is open to everyone. Actually that is mentioned in the last chapter where the name is glorified because even if the candala, the fallen persons not in the varnasarama system, not even a sudra chants the name of the Lord once he surpasses everyone in the varnasrama system. In other words bhakti has the capacity to purify anyone in any guna.

So we don’t have to go through the gradual process of purification. Bhakti itself will do every thing from the beginning to the end. So it surpasses all other processes. So whatever you will accomplish by karma as Prabhupada says in the purport - if you want something material, yes, bhakti will offer you that. So whatever karma yoga gives bhakti gives that also.

We see examples like Dhruva, he wanted a kingdom greater than his father’ or his grandfather’s kingdom and he got it. Lord gave it to him even though he did not want it afterwards he got that. Then we see in the Bhagavatam examples of many kings like Ambarish, they ruled the whole world or Yudhisthira - he ruled the whole world. So they had everything. So by bhakti one can get all material results and one can go beyond the material world. One escapes from the material world if we develop our bhakti perfection we go from the material world. We don’t come back. So liberation is automatically included in developing our relationship with the Supreme Lord. If you want powers, yes it is available for the devotee also. So devotees have much more power than anyone else.

Ambarish had power over the sudarsan cakra, Visnu. Therefore everything is available. All results are available through bhakti but of course a devotee does not want these things - sarsti, sarupya, samipya, all these things. He doesn’t even want these things. All he wants to do is serve the Lord. By definition that is the definition of bhakti, simply wanting to please the Lord. The result is that the Lord will give things, which are not obstacles to that bhakti. And a devotee will accept them if they are not an obstacle.

So He will give a kingdom or whatever like in the case of Dhruva or Yudhisthira Maharaj. He will give things if they are not obstacles but the main element is bhakti. So by the process of bhakti and only bhakti without having to do anything else even if we are most unqualified we can get the highest result and it will include everything else plus we can get much more that.

So that is why Kapiladeva here says just do bhakti yoga. You don’t have to do anything else. You don’t have to depend on anything else. You can do it exclusively. You don’t have to mix it with other processes. You just do bhakti and you will get perfection - whatever you need from karma yoga or jnana yoga or astanga yoga you will get but you get much more that that. And what is that? That is the highest satisfaction when the atma becomes satisfied - suprasidati. And what is that satisfaction? We get bliss. And where does the bliss arise from? From that relationship with the Supreme Lord, which we call rasa! That is what happens. You get prema and you get these various relationships with the Supreme Lord.

This is the final conclusion. By the various processes you can get various things but we shouldn’t think they are all equal. No. They are only partial like the whiteness of the milk or the fragrance of the milk. We are interested in Bhagavan but the point of Srimad Bhagavatam is not just Bhagavan but Svayam Bhagavan. There are so many forms of Bhagavan but the ultimate form is Krishna. He is Svayam Bhagavan. So this is the form, which we concentrate on.

So we don’t want to just worship the Lord. We worship Bhagavan, not only we worship Bhagavan but we worship Svayam Bhagavan, Krishna. Why? Because Krishna is the full manifestation of all the qualities of Bhagavan whereas all the others are also partial! So according to the worship you get the result. If you worship Nrsimhadeva you get Nrsimahadev, that amount of qualities. If you worship Rama, then that amount of qualities you will realize and if you worship Krishna you get the full spectrum of qualities.

In the beginning of Nectar of Devotion the first verse says Krishna is akhila-rasa-amrta-murti. He is the very form of all rasas - complete whereas the others are not. Other forms of the Lord are there, they have it but they don’t manifest it that particular form. If you choose to worship that form you will realize to that degree but if you worship Krishna then you get the full manifestation. And of course there is a little hitch there because according to the rasa you develop and according to the mood you develop there is also various degrees there up until madhurya rasa.

So that is why we have the madhurya rasa at the top. So that is who we worship I our temple, Radha and Krishna. So this is the full manifestation of all the twelve rasas. This is the recommendation of Srimad Bhagavatam ultimately and of course the whole Gaudiya sampradaya. Lord Caitanya has emphasized this also. Hare Krishna. [Applause.]

Comment: It is interesting to know that Kapiladev gave sankhya philosophy then when he departed Devahuti Mata got rid of all her opulences became very simple and meditated on the Lord but if you compare Yasoda Mata because Krishna is full of bhakti rasa so when He left she was devasted. Same thing with Saci Ma - when Caitanya Mahaprabhu left she was also lamenting. So it is interesting to note which incarnation gives you what although it is concluding in bhakti but mainly he was giving Sankhya. Even Kardama Muni receiving Kapiladeva as his son but he went and took sannyasa instead of staying with the Lord he actually went away. So there is a danger that when the Lord is born in your family where there is bhakti there is so strong attachment that there is tears and devastation if the Lord goes anyway whereas in jnana even if he is born in your family you can afford to go away and say, “I am cool.”

HH Bhanu Swami: We see that even in the case of Krishna because Vasudev and Devaki were separated from Krishna for so long they did not go through the same symptoms as the people of Vraja. When Uddhava came back he was astonished and he said, “These people of Vraja are superior to us even though we are the mother and father, the family of Krishna and they only adopted him, they are the real devotees because in a few moments of separation they are devastated. We are sitting here in Mathura for many, many years and Krishna is there and we didn’t do this but they went through the extraordinary symptoms in moments of separation. That shows the strength of their bhakti.”

Why it was different is also because they realized He is God. Madhurya was mixed with aisvarya so the relationship was weakened by that so that is why Krishna in Vrindavan is considered superior to the realization of Krishna in Mathura or Dwaraka, because the strength of that love is much higher because of the lack of regard as the Supreme Lord.

Comment: Because Devahuti Mata kept addressing Kapiladev as the Supreme Lord whereas Yasoda Mata had a stick. “If you steal butter again I will beat you up.” Saci Matta similarly did that.

Question: Thank you Maharaj. On the one hand we hear the Vedic statement that Prabhupada used to say that unless one has even a tinge of material desire he cannot go back to Godhead but in your lecture in this section of the Bhagavatam there is praman to the effect that you said that even if one does have tinges of desire mixed with bhakti there are liberation such as sarsti.

HH Bhanu Swami: I will explain that. Yes. A person who has this mixed bhakti, karma misra bhakti or jnana misra bhakti - some tinge there of whatever when the Lord has mercy of course he goes to the spiritual world the Lord does not allow any desires there so those gross desires are not there but that desire that he had when he was here in the material plane, material desire weakens the bhakti, tinges that bhakti. The bhakti that he has in the spiritual world is different from those who have suddha bhakti because of that. Doesn’t mean that he still has karma there. No. He does not have any karma or any mixture but that bhakti was mixed and therefore he was deluded. Those relationships with the Lord are deluded in the spiritual world. That is what it means. Doesn’t mean that he goes after jnana or karma gunas in the spiritual world. Of course if he gets association with pure devotion then he can give up that jnana or mixture or whatever. In the case of Sukadev he was jnani. He was atmarama but when he heard the Bhagavatam then he developed attraction for Krishna and heard from Vyasadev. Then he became the highest devotee - no more jnana, no more mixture of jnana at all. So it is also possible to remove that mixture also by association.

Question: Thank you very much Maharaj for your class. When you were talking about worshipping the forms of the Lord are Lord Caitanya Krishna synonymous?

HH Bhanu Swami: Yes. Svayam Bhagavan.

Question: I have another question. In comes up a few times in different classes. If an individual has a svarup - an eternal relationship with the personality of Godhead, is there a way to change ones rasa. Can one move up to madhurya rasa or if my eterbal position is that I am a stone in the spiritual world or a worshipper of Visnu form in Vaikuntha am I eternally stuck there? How does that work?

HH Bhanu Swami: Well it is not really explained anywhere but there is a little problem if we do jump around in the spiritual world. Eventually everybody will jump around and go after Krishna and everywhere else will be vacant or something! It looks like they don’t really jump around. Generally according to your sadhana you get your result - as you surrender unto Me I respond to you. So if you choose a certain Deity and worship that form then you perfect yourself and you go to that particular Deity. If you worship Rama you go to Rama. If you worship Krishna you go to Krishna. That is why we worship Krishna in the Gaudiya Sampradaya, not others. If we worship Krishna we go to Krishna. So if you worship Krishna and suddenly you end up on another planet - like Nrsimhadev it wouldn’t be quite proper. So the Lord responds according to your worship. So generally if sadhana we go up and we concentrate on a particular Deity, particular type of mood or whatever, particular relationship and then we get perfection to bhava and prema. Then that is what we get in the spiritual world.

Of course you can ask how do we get to choose here. It is our individual preference and the Lord’s mercy.

Comment: I heard a tape years go were Prabhupada answered that question and he said, “If Krishna wants he can change your rasa.”

HH Bhanu Swami: Oh Krishna can do anything.

Comment: That is how he answered that particular question.

HH Lokanath Swami: You showed that the jnana misras attain salokya, samipya, sarsti. You have put that into one category and the sudhha bhakta you had dasya, sakhya, vatsalya. I thought samipya means just next to Krishna. These sakhas aren’t they in samipya?

HH Bhanu Swami: I didn’t put samipya in there. I put sarsti, sarupya and salokya.

HH Lokanath Swami: Are those three things different?

HH Bhanu Swami: Because that’s for pure bhakti. Of course we can also find persons who do - like the yogis and the sages in the spiritual world - they do get a little close but still they are distant in one sense. Santa rasa is still - they may have a little samipya but it may not be constant. Jnana misra bhaktas when they get perfection whatever. What was your question? Did I answer your question?

HH Lokanath Swami: This svarupya - one who has attained svarupya mukti he maybe one of the sakhas who looks like Krishna, same form as the Lord. Sukadev Goswami - form is like that of Krishna - the complexion.

HH Bhanu Swami: That is a little bit different sarupya but I thnk when we say sarupya here - the karma misra bhaktas will get sarupya - they get a general form. Generally they don’t go as far as Krishna. They will get Vaikuntha and in Vaikuntha they can get that sarupya in the four armed form and they can get big palaces and things like that up in Vaikuntha and lots of sarsti - powers and all of that but they don’t meet the Lord. They meditate on the Lord and they are happy with that. So that very distant relationship that is with the karma misra bhaktas will get and jnana misra bhaktas - slightly higher than that, santa rasa - slight relationship but very distant. The reason for that is that they must get higher than the jnanis who get liberation. but they must get less than the pure bhaktas who get a positive relationship with the Lord. So in other words they get a weaker relationship with the Lord in the spiritual world but higher than the impersonalist because of the bhakti. Times up.

Comment: Explanation of Krishna das Kaviraj’s question can we change rasa. I read somewhere that if you attached to pure Krishna bhakti you go to Goloka Vrindavan and if you are attached to Lord Caitanya you go to Svetadvip (I think he meant Navadvip) but if you love both of Them you are in each of those lokas. So there is a split there nine times in the spiritual world.

HH Bhanu Swami: Actually if you have a spiritual body you can do extraordinary things. (Laughter.) Because we see that Krishna is in this universe when He comes but then He is in another universe and He also takes His associates with Him. So the associates spread all through the universes. Where Krishna avataras are having their pastimes Their associates are there in the spiritual world. So also the associates of the Lord also develop that tendency to have multiple bodies so to speak.. So it is not a problem. It is all arranged by Krishna. In fact Visvanath Cakravati explains that Krishna came back after three months after He left Mathura because He promised the gopis that He will come back and He promised Nanda Maharaj that He will come back. So He did come back. There can be no doubt that He will fulfill the promise of His dear devotees what to speak of others. And Krishna says He never breaks His promise so He must have come back but we don’t see it. That is all. So He went back. So what we see is another from in separation for so many years before He went back later. So there were two forms of Vrajabasis in separation and when He went back in a few months they were all happy. So there were two forms of Vrajabasis. Nanda and Yasoda and everybody in two forms - no problem! Krishna is potent He can do that.

Question: I am sorry. Before voicing my question I also want to express my gratitude for showing the superiority of bhakti so nicely. One small question I was under the impression that some on the terminology that you used or even in the graphics when you have karma yoga or jnana yoga without bhakti I thought specifically that would be karma and not karma yoga because yoga is what connects not a portion of bhakti. Am I wrong in that? We can not say that it is not real karma yoga because karma..

HH Bhanu Swami: It is karma yoga.

Comment: Could help in there not being any confusion you started the class but then again we should understand that we not. see as a jnani actually is not a jnani because they say that the form of the Lord is material. Therefore they are aparadhas. Therefore there is no bhakti there at all, even if they do worship they worship Him as a demigod. So that is aparadhas. Therefore they are not doing bhakti at all. Therefore they don’t get liberation. That is not real jnanis. Thank you.

Mataji: I wanted to thank Maharaj for this nice explanation which made me think and should make all of us think as a society whether we are actually developing all our practices in the mood of pure bhakti or we are mixing so much with it that sometimes it seems for those who are interested in bhakti that there is hardly any space left. However my question is a simple one - you explained that astanga yoga and jnana yoga are in the mode of goodness so I wanted to ask the practices you meant are in goodness because the realization of them by jnana yoga and astanga yoga is on a transcendental platform so is that due again due to some mixture with some bhakti or how did you categorize them in goodness with the result in transcendence?

HH Bhanu Swami: If we look in the eleventh canto, there Krishna speaks to Uddhava and He talks about the gunas so there He definitely mentions jnana is in sattva guna. So in other words the sadhana - that is your study of sastra and Vedanta and your renunciation and your sense control and development of god qualities and being peaceful all the time is all sattva guna. And the same goes for yoga - niyama -this is all sattva guna. So the process is in itself sattva guna. So in itself it cannot give you something beyond that. Sattva guna can only give sattva guna. It can’t go beyond that and create nirguna. It stays in the gunas. So that is why we need something nirguna. The two give you liberation.

The desired result of yoga and jnana is nirguna, liberation beyond the gunas but that process by itself cannot give it. That is why there has to be a little bhakti there. So by the mercy of the Lord He will give them liberation. The process itself does not do it. The mercy of the Lord will do it because He is beyond the gunas. So to get the mercy of the Lord there has to be a little bhakti. So it is also said that the jnani must give up jnana when he goes through liberation. If he doesn’t give it up if he is still attached to the sattva guna he must stay in the material world and give it up. So he gives up all the jnana, he does not give up the bhakti. That little portion of bhakti remains and that gives him the liberation. I think that is the last question.

Mataji: Maharaj I am not understanding how karma misra bhakti get liberation and how it reconciles with anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana karma?

HH Bhanu Swami: Yes but that is what I am saying. You can go to the spiritual - in other words jnana with a little bhakti gives liberation. So bhakti with a little jnana should give more than liberation but it should give less than bhakti with no jnana in it at all. So you go to the spiritual world but you don’t get the same relationship. That is the logic. Okay I think we have to end here. Hare Krishna. [End. Applause.]

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