sábado, 27 de marzo de 2010

In the dress of a Vaisnava, de Rukmini-Devi Dasi

In the dress of a Vaisnava, de Rukmini-Devi Dasi

"A jealous person in the dress of a Vaisnava is not at all happy to see the success of another Vaisnava in receiving the Lords mercy. Unfortunately in this age of Kali there are many mundane persons in the dress of Vaisnavas and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has described them a disciples of Kali. He says, Kali-cela, he indicates that there is another Vaisnava, a pseudo-Vaisnava with tilaka on his nose and kunti beads around his neck. Such a pseudo-Vaisnava associates with money and women and is jealous of successful Vaisnavas. Although passing for a Vaisnava, his only business is earning money in the dress of a Vaisnava. Bhaktivinoda Thakura therefore says that such a pseudo-Vaisnava is not a Vaisnava at all, but a disciple of Kali-yuga. A disciple of Kali cannot become an acarya by the decision of some high court. Mundane votes have no jurisdiction to elect a Vaisnava acarya. A Vaisnava acarya is self-effulgent, and there is no need for any court judgement. A false acarya my try to override a Vaisnava by a high-court decision, but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga."

(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta,
Madhya-lila, Ch 1, 218-219)

Actualizado hace aproximadamente 4 meses

Young Jared
Young Jared

Radhey Shyam

04 de diciembre de 2009 a las 13:03

Tim Lee
Tim Lee

Dear Jasoda, this is fine, there are thousands of temples just in Vrndavana alone, but the Bangalore temple's off shoot on Bhaktivedanta marg is the biggest distributor of free food in town, so more people are going there, and its expanding.

They are also feeding hundreds of thousands of children in the area. Its all a question of what each temple is doing. Many people from the temples you are talking about, they are going to our temple when they are hungry. We should not feed them because their temples do not have funds? No, we gather funds, and we feed them too.

We do not argue, well why doesn't your temple gather funds, no, we just feed them. Why should we argue with them about these things?... Ver más

So we are helping them maintain their temples by feeding their residents and visitors to their temples. OK, they do not need to collect money like we are, because they are not feeding their members and guests the way we are. When their members and guests are hungry, they come to our place, so this requires money.

We are getting the money, so apparently your idea is, we should not feed these other temple's residents and guests, the folks from other temples, and we should launch a complaint that they are not gathering funds? I am not sure what your point is? Yes we are collecting funds, but yes, when their temple's folks need food, we give them food. And thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands are coming to get our food, so maybe, they like our program? thanks pd

04 de diciembre de 2009 a las 17:06

Jasoda Dasi
Jasoda Dasi

I'm not aware of these Iskcon temple issues sorry I was just mentioning the spirit of a good temple doesn't get problems

04 de diciembre de 2009 a las 19:28

Tim Lee
Tim Lee

Thats fine, all I'm saying that there is more to these issues, the Bangalore temple is not just ISKCON's program, it is the world's largest free food program, not only in ISKCON but anywhere in India. No other temple has this big of a free food program, not only in ISKCON, but not anywhere else in India. Its not an ISKCON only issue.

They are ... Ver másserving 400 million plates of food per year to folks in India, many of them from "other temples," so they are doing something other temples cannot even dream of doing. If they are doing this job, give them some credit. Yes there are many temples in India that do not need to collect so much money, but they are not feeding people like this, they do not have the needs for money.

There are many good temples that collect no money, agreed, but lets not forget, we are the ones feeding many of the people from those temples. Those temples should be happy we are doing the job they could never even dream of doing, ever. Good spirit means also, feeding 400 million plates a year, that is also good spirit, thanks pd

04 de diciembre de 2009 a las 20:38

Jasoda Dasi
Jasoda Dasi

i'm sure you have a point, but I have interest in the point that there has not been enough said about the pseudo vaisnave phenomenon, as brought up at the outset of this post. Sure there is the Back to Prabhupad magazine etc, but they are not exhibinting preme bhakti for others to benefit./its not the remit of the magazine, altho I dpose they ... Ver másreckon they will purigy the problem in the end.

Tolerance is one thing but turning a blind eye to falsity and lies is another. Of course its not easy to go rocking the boat, but some of us have come too far to even pretend if pretend needs be. Once you have been touched by 'the real thing' temples run by people enjoying the power that that gives them and no attendees are receiving anything because there IS notheg there to receive..leaves the temple business a bit misleading. Where can a person go to get unconditional love these days. I have not directed anyone to a temple unless I personaaly accompany them tp safeguard they dont get heavied by acold hearted tired slave driven bramachari sweeping up. This is not Bhakti!

04 de diciembre de 2009 a las 20:59

Jasoda Dasi
Jasoda Dasi

Yes feeding people is a prime target of any temple. But without the proliferation of Preme Bhaktas the movement can only dry up eventually. Whilst there is still so much hollowness perhaps 70% or 80 % in any Iskcon institution then there will be disturbance, no better than the disturbances earlier in the post Prabhupad era..(abuse and position seeking etc..!)

Our group formed addressing this 'niche'. We were focused on personal growth not adhering to the outward look of a temple. The atmosphere was often rife with emotion and real feeling was charging the whole place. We learned to recycle those feelings into the kirtan with the aim that one daythe emotions would be transformed into spiritaul emotion in service of the divine couple. We learned what Kaam Gayatri actually does to the energy body, as we did it daily in group and privately, we saw the difference between having meetings and just joining in the 24 hour kirtan...as it was so clear what egoic existence offers...

We knew our time in this healing house of truth was a contained moment and must be made the best of. Not a hotel to get comfy in. It was a training and a purification. Our pasts were not sattvic for the most part as typical westerners arent. We supported each other in our breakdowns and breakthroughs.

Most of us are now living private l

The emphasis on our sadhana was such that one devotee said' lets go give hari nam in Glastonbury'..and our Guru said 'no you still have too much anger in you..the people will feel that and it will set the movement back'..... Ver más

Most of us are now living private lives(like the precogs inMinority Report) waiting for the 100th monkey effect. Alone we cannot make small ashrams in this saturation of Kali in the west, we need to cooperate with Iskcon (all flavours), but while even the 'dissidents of Iskcon are still playing politicsand we cannot be accepted as equals because our lineage is not the same,we cannot move and there is sclerosis. I bleed for Prabupad on a minute by minute basis and i know I am not alone. if we die from cancerous resentment and sorrow it will not be before i have expressed this in this communication forum of Facebook

05 de diciembre de 2009 a las 10:26

Tim Lee
Tim Lee

Thanks Jasoda ji, I get your point. I actualy agree with the essence of your point: the problem is that not enough people are preaching real prema bhakti, yep, agreed. From my perspective, the people who are going to preach about worship of Srila Prabhupada are my allies, and right now only a few places like Bangalore are preaching that Srila ... Ver másPrabhupada is the bona fide acharya.

Hence, I have to work with the folks who are promoting that idea, whether Bangalore or some of my other allies, despite all their -- defects and difficulties -- as you put it, because I am not going to work with anyone else.

My hope is that gradually enough people will wake up and want to promote the bona fide process. Early Christianity also had many scandalous followers, and many Gaudiya Matha folks also fell down into wife swapping and many other scandals, so it almost seems whenever a new process is launched, it takes awhile to get it off the ground properly. Yes, there is a lack of prema bhakti, agreed in spades. However, we have to stick with the people who are helping us, because a blind uncle is better than no uncle. thanks pd

05 de diciembre de 2009 a las 15:52

Jasoda Dasi
Jasoda Dasi
i appreciate your optimism..a blind uncle is better than uncle...not so sure really, as in the last 13 years I have found as much and often more common human kindness outside of devo circles and Iskcon circles particularly..so much so that anysone truly concerned with the movement of the heart and truly helping the juves of Kali Yugue are ... Ver másconspiciously oblivious to KC and often quite affronted by its poor representatives.

Even my teen daughter who I have tried to protect and encourage in our small town was upset by devos collecting on Pilton festival as they were not content to have the last pound from the group of mendicant horse drawn travellers she had taken up with. 'Surely you've got more' they said and followed them. They actually share their last crust, their last pound and their last bottle of cider, in a christianly bonhommie which I have to admit is not that evident with devotees she has encountered outside our little ashram experience when she was 5. Hence she and her 21 year old brother steer well clear of devotees.also having heard so much treachery about the Manor...so they have no refuge except whatever I can stretch over them with my creaking body!
I am interested in the process of self realisation, so that for eg in backwaters like Glastonbury we can give something. The power of love is the driving force of the movement. Then there will be soldiers of Caitanyas army who do not slip and flaky off and create disrepute etc...
05 de diciembre de 2009 a las 17:59

Jasoda Dasi
Jasoda Dasi
jives soz
05 de diciembre de 2009 a las 18:01

Tim Lee
Tim Lee
Well thanks Jasoda, but I'm not so much optimistic as realistic. We have the allies we have, and "what you see is what you get." Srila Prabhupada had lots of nutty devotees during his time, they were his allies, albeit very shaky. He also had some nice devotees too, but most of them just jumped ship after 1977. What to do?

I just got a brand new ally in a foreign land. He is very well spoken and very well organized, he says no one ever heard about all this guru brouhaha where he is, so he is going to clean these bogus gurus out of his country, apparently his family has some powers there. So its like brick by brick process. Krishna sends us some nut case allies, and some very wonderful allies like this person, what to do?

We can only do what we can? ... Ver más

I think I get your point though, "Its hard to soar with eagles, when you are associated with turkeys," something like that? Huh? Hah hah. Well Krishna sends us whatever He sends us, and we have to be thankful He is sending us whatever we get, its all the mercy of the Lord. thanks pd

05 de diciembre de 2009 a las 22:27 ·

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