Some reflections on Radha's mana
miércoles, 27 de enero de 2010 a las 12:33
Fotos de HARE KRISHNA - HARE KRISHNA
This verse from the Ujjvala-nilamani keeps coming to me—
The path of love is as naturally crooked at that of a snake. Therefore lovers quarrel, sometimes with good reason, and sometimes for no reason at all. (UN 15.102)
This is the difference between Gaudiyas and Nityaviharis. The latter see no usefulness in mana from the point of view of rasa, whereas the Gaudiyas (a pox on them!!) do. Why? Because that is somehow at once an integral part of the essence of loving relationships, which have a permanent, innate dialectic in them.
The word mAna ("measure, weight" --> "self worth" --> "pride") has two different uses. One is the kind of frustrated anger and displeasure that is half explicable, half not, and seemingly causes a distance to grow between lovers. That is the meaning in Ujjvala-nilamani chapter 15.74-146. The other meaning, from chapter 14, is a sthayi-bhava, which in effect tries to explain the underlying reasons, based in love, that such manifestations take place.
In other words, mana is not just a lila, where Radha or Krishna stop talking to one another until one or the other one gives in and begs, “Please make it stop! Don’t push me to the breaking point! I can’t live without you.” At that point, Krishna prays, “Put your merciful feet on my head. I can’t take it any longer.” Rather, it is a particular state of love, which lies between sneha and pranaya.
Mana means pride, because love does not just mean losing your identity in the loved one. It also means finding value in yourself.
Rudra Bhatta says (and Rupa Goswami quotes):
Without sneha, there would be no fear. Without pranaya, there would be no jealousy. Therefore mana reveals these two other states of love also (or, mana reveals the love of both nayaka and nayika). (UN 15.78)
Radha’s mana is durjaya-mana. She does not give in so easily, but eventually she has to. Because she is also needy. She needs Krishna, but she has to prove something. Before she can trust him, she needs to push the screws in deeper. It is a kind of torture, really. So how can anyone accept that Radha should be cruel to Krishna in that way? Only the Gaudiyas really seem to have a feeling for it.
But Rupa Goswami has an answer for those who don't, these Chandravali followers. Perhaps all men are conflicted a little between Chandravali and Radharani, though of course no one in the Gaudiya sampradaya will admit it. We accept without question Rupa Goswami’s edict: tayor apy ubhayor madhye radhika sarvathadhika, “Of Radha and Chandravali, Radha is superior in every respect.” (UN 4.2)
But men in this world are generally conflicted. Intellectually they want a Chandravali who will be submissive. At their worst, they are those Japanese sex-doll fetishists who keep lifesize, big-lipped, simulated flesh women piled up in a cupboard for immediate, unprotesting, sexual availability. The Nitya Vihara!!
These are the men who infantilize women in their fantasies, who in the extreme become pedophiles. This is what I mean when I condemn masculinity, when I say that raw and savage masculinity is by nature I-It consciousness and exceedingly troubled by the Other in any form.
When we condemn masculine religion, it means that religion which is in competition with other religions, which effortlessly and repeatedly turns God into an idol, an impersonal object, a purveyor of desire, subject to a subjective vision and not the object of objective vision and love.
But I digress: Radha is Krishna’s Other. And he must surrender. That is her power. And from her point of view that is not so much a conscious thing as the result of her loving attitude known as mana. Mana arises in Radha whenever she thinks she is being treated like a Chandravali.
If Krishna has been with Chandravali and comes to Radha, she naturally says, “Well if you think I am just another Chandravali, then what is the point? There already IS a Chandravali out there. As a matter of fact, not one, but countless Chandravalis. For a handsome and heroic chap like yourself, Chandravalis are a dime a dozen. So what do you want with me?”
But Chandravali is also a part of Radha. This is not some kind of sado-masochistic dominatrix lila with whips and black leather. The way the lila has been described, Krishna is one, but he is also two: there is the bahu-vallabha Krishna of the Bhagavatam, in whom the element of aisvarya remains. And the Radha-vigata-prana Krishna of the Gita Govinda, who gives up this indifferent supremacy and all-attractiveness to become the attracted one.
The point is that for Krishna to be fulfilled, he must transcend being the one who has sAdhAraNa-praNaya (GG 2.1), whose love is generalized, even the one who is samo'ham sarva-bhUteSu (Gita 9.29). The dialectic of love, the process of maturation, comes through commitment and surrender--even for Krishna. Otherwise love has no real meaning for Him.
When the different feelings of mana take on the qualities of trust, then that is called pranaya. (UN 14.108)
The synthesis of the lila comes about through the earning of trust (vizrambha), which deepens the sense of intimacy that was originally established in sneha.
--------------------
Forgive me, I prattle like a fool. The impersonalists say we cannot understand God by analogy, and yet that is the only way we can understand. We are told not to go too far with analogical thinking, and yet our acharyas have already gone too, too far.
Everything that glorifies Krishna's aishwarya--his omnipotence, his omniscience, his absolute transcendence--is true. And yet, the greatest mystery about Krishna is his madhurya, which is far more ineffable than his aishwarya, indeed you could say a far greater miracle of omnipotence--to be omnipotent, and yet somehow not.
And all that carries over into God's relationship with the jiva and creation. He controls everything, and yet somehow or other, the jiva is free to choose, to make decisions that determine his own fate.
--------------------
Some relevant material from Govinda-lilamrita, chapter 13, shuka and shari quarrel.
The Sharis say, ""Hey Shukas! All the cowherd boys outwardly look very nice like ripe makhala fruit, but inside, they’re just as bitter! That is because they are full of deception and trickery.”
The Shukas retort: “O Sharis! Although the gopis are sweet on the inside, they’re covered by an outer layer of orneriness, and then by tough shell of mana—just like the hard layers covering the sweet coconut meat. That is the the shape of rasa where they are concerned. But where Krishna is concerned, he is the same inside and out, without any flaw or wasted elements. He’s sweet inside and out, like a bunch of grapes.” (13.20-21)
The Sharikas answer with a grin: “Oh Shukas! Your master may be rasamaya within, but his dishonest, pert behavior is coarse and knobbly like sugarcane bark. So, just as sugarcane juice isn’t available until the cane has been run through the juicing press, your rasika Krishna doesn’t supply any rasa until he's been run through the mill of the gopis’ mana! No wonder he is called achyuta!”
Achyuta meaning, not a drop of juice falls.
http://jagadanandadas.blogspot.com/2007/11/mana.html
aher iva gatiH premNaH svabhAva-kuTilA bhavet
tasmAd dhetor ahetoz ca yUnor mAnam udaJcati
tasmAd dhetor ahetoz ca yUnor mAnam udaJcati
The path of love is as naturally crooked at that of a snake. Therefore lovers quarrel, sometimes with good reason, and sometimes for no reason at all. (UN 15.102)
This is the difference between Gaudiyas and Nityaviharis. The latter see no usefulness in mana from the point of view of rasa, whereas the Gaudiyas (a pox on them!!) do. Why? Because that is somehow at once an integral part of the essence of loving relationships, which have a permanent, innate dialectic in them.
The word mAna ("measure, weight" --> "self worth" --> "pride") has two different uses. One is the kind of frustrated anger and displeasure that is half explicable, half not, and seemingly causes a distance to grow between lovers. That is the meaning in Ujjvala-nilamani chapter 15.74-146. The other meaning, from chapter 14, is a sthayi-bhava, which in effect tries to explain the underlying reasons, based in love, that such manifestations take place.
In other words, mana is not just a lila, where Radha or Krishna stop talking to one another until one or the other one gives in and begs, “Please make it stop! Don’t push me to the breaking point! I can’t live without you.” At that point, Krishna prays, “Put your merciful feet on my head. I can’t take it any longer.” Rather, it is a particular state of love, which lies between sneha and pranaya.
Mana means pride, because love does not just mean losing your identity in the loved one. It also means finding value in yourself.
Rudra Bhatta says (and Rupa Goswami quotes):
snehaM vinA bhayaM na syAn nerSyA ca praNayaM vinA
tasmAn mAna-prakAro’yaM dvayoH prema-prakAzakaH
tasmAn mAna-prakAro’yaM dvayoH prema-prakAzakaH
Without sneha, there would be no fear. Without pranaya, there would be no jealousy. Therefore mana reveals these two other states of love also (or, mana reveals the love of both nayaka and nayika). (UN 15.78)
Radha’s mana is durjaya-mana. She does not give in so easily, but eventually she has to. Because she is also needy. She needs Krishna, but she has to prove something. Before she can trust him, she needs to push the screws in deeper. It is a kind of torture, really. So how can anyone accept that Radha should be cruel to Krishna in that way? Only the Gaudiyas really seem to have a feeling for it.
But Rupa Goswami has an answer for those who don't, these Chandravali followers. Perhaps all men are conflicted a little between Chandravali and Radharani, though of course no one in the Gaudiya sampradaya will admit it. We accept without question Rupa Goswami’s edict: tayor apy ubhayor madhye radhika sarvathadhika, “Of Radha and Chandravali, Radha is superior in every respect.” (UN 4.2)
But men in this world are generally conflicted. Intellectually they want a Chandravali who will be submissive. At their worst, they are those Japanese sex-doll fetishists who keep lifesize, big-lipped, simulated flesh women piled up in a cupboard for immediate, unprotesting, sexual availability. The Nitya Vihara!!
These are the men who infantilize women in their fantasies, who in the extreme become pedophiles. This is what I mean when I condemn masculinity, when I say that raw and savage masculinity is by nature I-It consciousness and exceedingly troubled by the Other in any form.
When we condemn masculine religion, it means that religion which is in competition with other religions, which effortlessly and repeatedly turns God into an idol, an impersonal object, a purveyor of desire, subject to a subjective vision and not the object of objective vision and love.
But I digress: Radha is Krishna’s Other. And he must surrender. That is her power. And from her point of view that is not so much a conscious thing as the result of her loving attitude known as mana. Mana arises in Radha whenever she thinks she is being treated like a Chandravali.
If Krishna has been with Chandravali and comes to Radha, she naturally says, “Well if you think I am just another Chandravali, then what is the point? There already IS a Chandravali out there. As a matter of fact, not one, but countless Chandravalis. For a handsome and heroic chap like yourself, Chandravalis are a dime a dozen. So what do you want with me?”
But Chandravali is also a part of Radha. This is not some kind of sado-masochistic dominatrix lila with whips and black leather. The way the lila has been described, Krishna is one, but he is also two: there is the bahu-vallabha Krishna of the Bhagavatam, in whom the element of aisvarya remains. And the Radha-vigata-prana Krishna of the Gita Govinda, who gives up this indifferent supremacy and all-attractiveness to become the attracted one.
The point is that for Krishna to be fulfilled, he must transcend being the one who has sAdhAraNa-praNaya (GG 2.1), whose love is generalized, even the one who is samo'ham sarva-bhUteSu (Gita 9.29). The dialectic of love, the process of maturation, comes through commitment and surrender--even for Krishna. Otherwise love has no real meaning for Him.
mAno dadhAno vizrambhaM praNayaH procyate budhaiH
When the different feelings of mana take on the qualities of trust, then that is called pranaya. (UN 14.108)
The synthesis of the lila comes about through the earning of trust (vizrambha), which deepens the sense of intimacy that was originally established in sneha.
--------------------
Forgive me, I prattle like a fool. The impersonalists say we cannot understand God by analogy, and yet that is the only way we can understand. We are told not to go too far with analogical thinking, and yet our acharyas have already gone too, too far.
Everything that glorifies Krishna's aishwarya--his omnipotence, his omniscience, his absolute transcendence--is true. And yet, the greatest mystery about Krishna is his madhurya, which is far more ineffable than his aishwarya, indeed you could say a far greater miracle of omnipotence--to be omnipotent, and yet somehow not.
And all that carries over into God's relationship with the jiva and creation. He controls everything, and yet somehow or other, the jiva is free to choose, to make decisions that determine his own fate.
--------------------
Some relevant material from Govinda-lilamrita, chapter 13, shuka and shari quarrel.
antaH-kauTilya-mAlinyA bahir-vIkSaNa-raJjanAH
gopAlA bhAnty amI pakva-mahAkAla-phalopamAH 19
gopAlA bhAnty amI pakva-mahAkAla-phalopamAH 19
The Sharis say, ""Hey Shukas! All the cowherd boys outwardly look very nice like ripe makhala fruit, but inside, they’re just as bitter! That is because they are full of deception and trickery.”
vAmya-valkala-sanchannA dRDha-mAnAsthi-saMvRtA
nArikela-phalAnAM vA gopikAnAM rasa-sthitiH20
bahir-antaz caika-rUpA doSa-heyAMza-varjitA
drAkSA-phalotkarasyeva svAmino me rasa-sthitiH 21
nArikela-phalAnAM vA gopikAnAM rasa-sthitiH20
bahir-antaz caika-rUpA doSa-heyAMza-varjitA
drAkSA-phalotkarasyeva svAmino me rasa-sthitiH 21
The Shukas retort: “O Sharis! Although the gopis are sweet on the inside, they’re covered by an outer layer of orneriness, and then by tough shell of mana—just like the hard layers covering the sweet coconut meat. That is the the shape of rasa where they are concerned. But where Krishna is concerned, he is the same inside and out, without any flaw or wasted elements. He’s sweet inside and out, like a bunch of grapes.” (13.20-21)
antaH sadA rasa-mayo’pi bahiH samudyat-
kauTilya-dhArSTya-vara-valkala-parva-rukSaH
mAnAkhya-yantraNam Rte na rasa-prado’sAv
ikSu-prakANDa iva vaH prabhur acyutAkhyaH 22
kauTilya-dhArSTya-vara-val
mAnAkhya-yantraNam Rte na rasa-prado’sAv
ikSu-prakANDa iva vaH prabhur acyutAkhyaH 22
The Sharikas answer with a grin: “Oh Shukas! Your master may be rasamaya within, but his dishonest, pert behavior is coarse and knobbly like sugarcane bark. So, just as sugarcane juice isn’t available until the cane has been run through the juicing press, your rasika Krishna doesn’t supply any rasa until he's been run through the mill of the gopis’ mana! No wonder he is called achyuta!”
Achyuta meaning, not a drop of juice falls.
http://jagadanandadas.blog
Escrito hace aproximadamente 2 meses
Jagadananda Das
At some point, the sampradaya continues. Like an eruption of a volcano, the lava follows a channel until it reaches the surface and explodes outwards. Then that hardens and the magma boils and bubbles underground until the next eruption. Often from unexpected points.
28 de enero a las 6:47 · Denunciar
James Rappai
Answering ZT, 'Bona fide Vaishnava' are the operative words that I am looking for here. I can always read DH Laurence for all the insight I need on love from the mundane perspective. Personally, I believe what Bilva Mangala brought to Vaishnava literature was loosely based on his mundane love-affair with Chintamani. The point is, both the mundane ... Ver másand the spiritual perspective on love are almost one and the same. But one should, I feel, perceive it differently, just so as not to cheapen the latter. Anyway, it appears that you are after all a devotee and therefore dandavat by friend.
Jasoda Dasi
i agree they are the same but not usually sharable in the public eye! in fact not always accessable to one's self realisation!I want to follow the movement of my heart as an indicator of Krisna's intimate communication with me..not an outside distraction...its a very personal business
Jayalakshmi Alankar
Namaste.
I feel 'Maan Madhuri' of Divine Couple is a 'self imposed' 'viraha madhuri', i.e. Divine love in separation to enhance Their relishing the mellows of 'Milan Madhuri', Their Blissful union that inivitably follows...
Jaya Sri Radhe!
enjoy this 'maan lila' at, Jagannath Mandir Dance:... Ver más
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I530yGsrtkM&feature=related
I feel 'Maan Madhuri' of Divine Couple is a 'self imposed' 'viraha madhuri', i.e. Divine love in separation to enhance Their relishing the mellows of 'Milan Madhuri', Their Blissful union that inivitably follows...
Jaya Sri Radhe!
enjoy this 'maan lila' at, Jagannath Mandir Dance:... Ver más
http://www.youtube.com/wat
Indian Dance - Jagannath Mandir group - Awesome devotional
Jasoda Dasi
I also agree that behind the question 'is this sampradaic' reasoning' from James Rappai (who interestingly sports no initiated name here LOL!) is do you have an anchorage in the disciplic succession, ZT. Whilst your verse is intelligent it lacks aplomb that goes with sampradaic reasonings. Soz. But thats what KC is about and i can detect the difference. No harm intended.
Jayalakshmi Alankar
Jagat wrote:
Radha’s mana is durjaya-mana. She does not give in so easily, but eventually she
has to. Because she is also needy. She needs Krishna, but she has to prove something....."
my comment:... Ver más
prati kSaNa vardhamAnam prema svarUpam... NBS
That piqued Mistress is the Queen of Divine Love.
"Jayati, Jayati Radhe! Jayati Jaya!!"
Radha’s mana is durjaya-mana. She does not give in so easily, but eventually she
has to. Because she is also needy. She needs Krishna, but she has to prove something....."
my comment:... Ver más
Radhaji's 'maan' is known as 'nirhetu maan', it has NO obvious reason! Causeless Jealousy!
Being the Ahladini Shakti Herself, Her every Divine pastime and transcendental emotions are only meant to add ever increasing Bliss to the Sat-Chit-Ananda Brahman, Bhagavan Sri Krishna.
Being the Ahladini Shakti Herself, Her every Divine pastime and transcendental emotions are only meant to add ever increasing Bliss to the Sat-Chit-Ananda Brahman, Bhagavan Sri Krishna.
prati kSaNa vardhamAnam prema svarUpam... NBS
Once Sri Krishna and Radhikaji were performing the Divine dance together.
Suddenly Radhaji looked at Her own reflected Image in the glowing blue chest of Her Beloved Lord.
Out of no reason, and even without making any attempt to realizing the truth, She immediately finds Lord Krishna to be unfaithful as He seems to have 'Another' Woman in His heart! She leaves Him at once with 'causeless anger'!
Suddenly Radhaji looked at Her own reflected Image in the glowing blue chest of Her Beloved Lord.
Out of no reason, and even without making any attempt to realizing the truth, She immediately finds Lord Krishna to be unfaithful as He seems to have 'Another' Woman in His heart! She leaves Him at once with 'causeless anger'!
That piqued Mistress is the Queen of Divine Love.
"Jayati, Jayati Radhe! Jayati Jaya!!"
Nandini Radhe
I disagree that Radha is "needy".
We all know Radha is deeper than Krishna.
Mana is indeed Radha's wisdom.
We all know Radha is deeper than Krishna.
Mana is indeed Radha's wisdom.
James Rappai
My initiated name appears on the side of legal name right on top! It's Jeevanmukta Das. I am a disciple of GKG. For more information, you will probably have to be my friend Ms. Jasoda Dasi and I am sending you an invitation. Been a devotee for many, many moons! Since this is my facebook primarily to promote my book, 'The Bible Betrayed,' I chose to... Ver más use my legal name. No sense in bewildering my Christian and Jewish readers! if you have the time, please do check out my blogs and website listed on my facebook and maybe buy my book from Amazon!!
Zvonimir Tosic
I have known a German prince with more titles than subjects, and a Spanish nobleman with more names than shirts. From our ancestors come our names, but from our own virtues come our honour. So I choose to be a man, not a nam.
James Rappai
??
29 de enero a las 18:37
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