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HH Bhakti Raghava Swami on Daivi Varnasrama

HH Bhakti Raghava Swami on Daivi Varnasrama

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Date: February 17th, 2010 Verse: Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.32.37 Speaker: HH Bhakti Raghava Swami

pravocam bhakti-yogasya svarupam te catur-vidham kalasya cavyakta-gater yo ‘ntardhavati jantusu

TRANSLATION: My dear mother, I have explained to you the process of devotional service and its identity in four different social divisions. I have explained to you as well how eternal time is chasing the living entities, although it is imperceptible to them.

PURPORT: The process of bhakti-yoga, devotional service, is the main river flowing down towards the sea of the Absolute Truth, and all other processes mentioned are just like tributaries. Lord Kapila is summarizing the importance of the process of devotional service. Bhakti-yoga, as described before, is divided into four divisions, three in the material modes of nature and one in transcendence, which is untinged by the modes of material nature. Devotional service mixed with the modes of material nature is a means for material existence, whereas devotional service without desires for fruitive result and without attempts for empirical philosophical research is pure, transcendental devotional service. [End of Srila Prabhupada’s purport to SB 3.32.38.]

HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: So this morning I was thinking everyone is going on parikrama. I won’t have anyone in class but I am happy to see that we have a good crowd. There are so many verses in the Bhagavatam and although we may have read all of them there are many verse we have not read or we may have read a long time back. When we first read the translation it mentions about four divisions so I was thinking, “Oh I will get an opportunity to speak about varnasrama - four divisions. And of course Prabhupada doesn’t make any reference directly to varnasrama but he very nicely and very expertly explains something very, very essential, very, very important in connection with dharma, in connection with bhakti-yoga.

We generally think that bhakti-yoga is the nine processes of bhakti yoga beginning with sravanam upto atma nivedanam, full or complete surrender but here in the purport very interestingly Srila Prabhupada is in explaining what is in the verse regarding four divisions divides these four divisions into two.

The first division he refers to as the three modes of material nature. He is speaking about bhakti-yoga. Prabhupada is speaking of bhakti-yoga in four divisions. We generally don’t think that way therefore we need somebody like Srila Prabhupada to help us understand more deeply about bhakti yoga. So the first level of bhakti yoga that Prabhupada is referring to as he translates here - “Bhakti-yoga, as described before, is divided into four divisions, three in the material modes of nature and one in transcendence,” In order to follow the Bhagavatam classes that I have been hearing like all of you I am always on the lookout for the word varnasrama especially because last year two of our GBC resolutions were directly highlighting varnasrama, one of them being as most of you know that whenever there is a Bhagavatam class given the speaker should make and effort to give maybe ten percent of his presentation in connection with varnasrama.

So today I would like to mention, announce that the whole class is going to be in regards to varnasrama to make up for other classes, which did not mention the word varnasrama. I am just coming out of a four-day seminar. Yesterday was the last day. We started everyday at ten o’clock and 6.30pm - twenty-four hours all together of each day four modules. This year for those who enjoyed the lecture. So many wonderful things happened in the course here in Mayapur festival. Really this year I noticed many wonderful things happened at the same time because many of us are not that types of yogis who can be simultaneously in two places at the same time so we have to chose between one and another. And it is difficult to miss the inauguration going on of the Temple of Understanding. On the same day many classes are going on.

This is something extremely important. I have taken a few quotations and notes in connection with the seminar and directly in connection with the point that Srila Prabhupada is making here. I am asking Sri Sri Radha-Madhava and Sri Sri Gaura Nitai to kindly help me to try to make some of these very, very crucial points which are often either not known or misunderstood or even possibly neglected, some of them in the context of our lives.

The explanation being given here by Srila Prabhupada is that bhakti-yoga is divided into two levels. Dharma is also - this we need to understand very clearly - dharma is meant to be understood, not only understood but also practiced in two features. Prabhupada is referring directly to this in the purport. Ones nature is, for those of us, who are here in this material world and to some degree or other except for very exceptional cases still connected with the modes of material nature - I won’t ask for a show of hands. All of us Prabhupada explains have come to this material world because we have been sinful. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur explains, the greatest sin that we have all committed is that we have rejected Krishna. And here we have the material world, a world of illusion - a world of forgetfulness of Krishna, forgetfulness of two things actually. One is the higher level of bhakti yoga or the higher level of dharma, which we can very easily understand as bhagavat-dharma. And also forgetfulness of the other level of yoga or the other level of yoga, which is called varnasrama dharma.

When we begin to actually analyze this point more closely we need to understand the following in the very same way that bhakti yoga is highest definition, highest realm, that of pure bhakti. Krsna-bhakti nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha is the eternal perfection of the living entities - to be engaged in devotional service. So this bhakti, this higher level of yoga, this higher level of dharma, bhagavat-dharma, no one can be happy unless we come to that understanding and we begin to practice pure devotional service. It is as Srila Rupa Goswami and Srila Prabhupada explained ‘Nectar of Devotion’ the complete science of devotional service. It is a science given by Krishna therefore it is also perfect science and without it we cannot be happy.

What is also important to understand especially for devotees, especially for practicing devotees of bhakti yoga - and this is a point being made here by Srila Prabhupada is that there is another dimension of yoga which we cannot neglect which is actually referred to as varnasrama dharma. In the same way that bhakti yoga which is pure devotional service is a scientific ad standard process given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna Himself. This process of varnasrama dharma is also the most scientific material arrangement for those of us who are here in the material world. It is a standard process, which is not meant to be abandoned, which is not meant to be changed. And when we do abandon it, when we do change it, it opens the doors to what we see today - total chaos, ugra-karma, varna-sankara. These things automatically come because we don’t follow this process.

I want to share some important quotations from both Srila Prabhupada, our foremost leader, founder acarya of our society and also of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, another great personality who spoke, who gave a very important insight regarding varnasrama dharma in relation to Vaisnavism. Because sometime the devotees, we have this false notion that we are Vaisnavas. We don’t really need so much this varnasrama. It is a matter of fact that our devotees often presenting the argument, “You now Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected varnasrama. It is there is the Caitanya-caritamrta in His conversations with Ramananda Raya. And He also rejected varnasrama when He was touring South India. He didn’t give some much importance to varnasrama so because in general our devotees to this day within our Iskcon Society have difficulties. There are a few reasons to have difficulties with the ideology of varnasrama or even with the term varnasrama.

I had a small realization. all of us at different times Krishna is very kind to help us understand. That is the process. Krishna within the heart when he is satisfied with our humble attempts to try to serve Him, serve the mission He gives a little bit of realization. My small realization before I quote some of these verses, very important verses. During the time of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur we know how the whole Vaisnava lifestyle and Vaisnava practice was looked down upon because it was misused. There were so many sahajyas, so many apa-sampradayas and Bhaktivinode Thakur had to work very, very hard to actually re-establish in its proper glory what is Vaisnavism. This is our history.

We learn of how after the disappearance of Narottama dasa Thakur and Syamananda Pandit - these three great personalities who were pushing forward Lord Caitanya’s movement - after they disappeared actually the whole movement of Lord Caitanya went into like the dark ages practically. By the time Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur made his appearance that world was not accepted properly because of abuse, In a very similar way today the concepts behind varnasrama are in a very similar way not understood and very often looked down upon. Of course we should know and I should make this point very clear the ultimate and highest expression of dharma is bhagavat dharma or pure bhakti but what we fail to understand is that there is an intimate link and connection between this process of varnasrama dharma as a means to achieve this highest level of pure bhakti.

So the point that is being made here in the verse is that not only is bhakti meant to be performed in the literary stage of paramahamsa, not only is bhakti meant to be performed - this will help us in the context of Nectar of Devotion - not only is bhakti meant to be performed at the level of raganuga-bhakti. Bhakti is also meant to be performed at the level of sadhana. Isn’t it? Sadhana-bhakti, which is mixed devotional service.

Srila Prabhupada has very often spoken about varnasrama and he spoke especially about daivi-varnasrama. Normally varnasrama meant to be daivi-varnasrama. Daivi varnasrama means that system of varna and asrama whereby the individuals are directing all of their activities towards pleasing Krishna, where the members of each varna and asrama know about devotional service and are willing to practice devotional service within the confines of their varnas and asramas. I would like to share with you all some very interesting quotes from Bhaktivinode Thakur but before I do that it actually means that bhakti is meant to be performed in these two levels of dharma - in the stage of bhagavat dharma or pure devotional service to Krishna and also within the level of varnasrama dharma. That is actually very directly connected with - this came to mind this morning just before giving class - it is a very well known verse in the Bhagavatam 2nd canto chapter two:

akamah sarva-kamo va moksa-kama udara-dhih tivrena bhakti-yogena yajeta purusam param [SB 2.3.10]

Whatever our activity maybe whether it is still tinged with material desires, still we should be practicing bhakti yoga. Here is the first quotation, from Sri Bhaktyaloka written by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur. In this particular quote Bhaktyaloka confirms that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not reject varnasrama dharma. Actually he is quoting a well-known verse from the Bhagavatam:

Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.8) it is said: dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah notpadayed yadi ratim srama eva hi kevalam

“The occupational activities a man performs according to his own position are only so much useless labor if they do not provoke attraction for the message of the Personality of Godhead.” Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur comments:

“From this one should not conclude that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has ordered us to discard varnasrama-dharma. If that would have been the case, then He would not have instructed all living entities through His pastimes of completely following the orders of grhastha and sannyasa.” [SBL 12: Sadhu-vrtti] Lord Caitanya Himself took sannyasa as we all know. Prabhupada in one purport explained that the very fact that Lord Caitanya took sannyasa means that He accepted varnasrama system because that is part of the varnasrama system.

This is a very important statement here by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, “As long as one has a material body the system of varnasrama-dharma must be followed, but it should remain under the full control and domination of bhakti. Varnasrama-dharma is like the foundation of one’s supreme occupational duty. When one’s supreme occupational duty is matured and one achieves his goal, then the process is gradually neglected. Again, it is also abandoned at the time of death.” [SBL 12: Sadhu-vrtti] This point we were mentioning earlier. It is a very important means. Actually Srila Prabhu mentioned that unless we adopt this system of varnasrama dharma, we would not be successful in our bhakti.

Although it is subservient, varnasrama dharma being a material system given by the Lord it is a perfect system, which we need to understand and which we need to implement as much as possible. Here are further quotes from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, “But a devotee who desires to properly pass his life still accepts his duties according to varnasrama, as those duties are favorable to devotional service and counted as part of devotional service. All these activities are no longer called karma.” [SBL 2: Prayasa] All the activities within the framework of varnasrama when performed in that consciousness don’t incur karma.

Two other short quotes from Bhaktivinode Thakur before we go what Srila Prabhupada is saying and then we shall try to summarize by bring conclusions within our context as the Iskcon society. This is from the Sri Caitanya Siksamrta written by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, “With the assistance of varnasrama dharma, a person should cultivate bhakti. It is also necessary to follow the rules of varnasrama in the cultivation of bhakti.” [Sri Caitanya Siksamrta, Chapter 3 Part four - Relationship between secondary rules and primary rules.] This in my last quote, “Though all humans have a right to practice bhakti, those who follow the regulations of varnasrama have a much easier time.” Those who accept to follow the system of varnasrama will be able to advance more easily in bhakti.

Srila Prabhupada as we all know made this very important statement - “Unless in the human society the varnasrama system is introduced, no scheme or social order, health order or any order, political order, will be successful.” [Room Conversation Vrndavan 18 October 1977] Very strong statement! There are some other very interesting statements given by Srila Prabhupada. I will just read them quickly.

“Actually, everyone should be engaged to produce food, but the modern set-up of civilization is that few people are engaged in producing food, and others are eating. They are offering… They are artificially getting money.” [Srila Prabhupada - Garden Conversation with Mahadeva’s Mother and Jesuit Priest — July 25, 1973, London] We need to understand how our Vedic culture, our way of life as practicing devotees. Vedic culture is primarily, if you look at history, even if you look at the history of kali yuga and even of course beyond, is primarily an agrarian based culture. Why is it an agrarian based culture? Primarily because of it’s intimate close and very essential connection with the land and the cows.

We all know ho modern society is deviating more and more from this standard way of life. Many of us have not been exposed to that culture, especially those from the western countries - we do have difficulties in relating to that. Not to be denied! We have lots of difficulties in understanding varnasrama. We should however try to understand some basic principles and concepts, which cannot be changed. If we are true followers of dharma we cannot accept one part of dharma and neglect the other part f dharma - as we are actually doing. We need to understand that the more society as is the present case around the world is becoming more and more urbanized. Most devotees for example do not know how - I have been sharing this with devotees - when I first came to India in 1976 at that time the population in the villages must have been around 90%. Definitely in the higher 80% - the population of people living in the villages!

Two months ago when I was in Andrapradesh having some discussion with a pancagraj (?)- Someone who is overseeing the development of over a hundred villages - so he knows about villages in India. He revealed to me that for the first time in India the percentage of the population in the villages has gone below 70% and according to statistics and surveys within ten years it will come down to 50%. Some of our devotees may say, “Well is that really so important?” Actually it is very important.

When we abandon this natural way of living as we are doing it is a real crisis situation. Actually the whole world is in a crisis situation largely because majority of the people are totally unfamiliar with these two dimensions of dharma. They don’t know about the spiritual dimension of dharma and also most people do not know about the material dimension of dharma. And what is very unfortunate is that many of our devotees also don’t realize that material dimension of dharma. When we neglect that material dimension of dharma - means varnasrama then we should expect difficulties especially when it has been underlined and stressed so much by the founder of our society.

A few other small quotes: “Prabhupada: Clever means that he must stay in his own land. He should not be cheated by the paper9paper money) and go to the city.” [Srila Prabhupada Garden Conversation with Mahadeva’s Mother and Jesuit Priest — July 25, 1973, London]

“Gandhi’s program was very nice, village organize so that they may not come to the city and help the capitalists. Remain satisfied in the village.” [Srila Prabhupada - Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) — September 12, 1976, Vrindavana]

“So this Krishna consciousness movement is trying to revive the original, constitutional position. So one of them, in Krishna consciousness movement, is village organization, as you are trying here.” [VD 32: Philadelphia, July 15, 1976: Evening Lecture at Gita-Nagari Farm] Our original/highest constitutional position is pure bhakti in the spiritual world. Prabhupada mentions here, “So one of them, (constitutional position) in Krishna consciousness movement, is village organization,” In different ways in different places Prabhupada was trying to come back to the same point - our constitution, the natural way that the majority of the people should live in is in that more simplified way. He often quotes simple living high thinking but we fail o understand the deep meaning of what that actually means.

The last quotation, “India’s civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages.” [Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk — Durban, October 13, 1975 (New-2003)] In addition to being a very large topic I can’t reverse the topic I know. Having met and spoken to various devotees the point I am trying to make although it may be controversial and although we may not have so much of attraction. The point I was trying to make earlier I did not finalize explaining how Bhaktivinode Thakur before his time Vaisnavism was looked down upon but by his efforts, he worked very, very hard and gave it the glory that it has. Varnasrama we need to work towards changing our own attitudes towards varnasrama. Unless one follows the various rules and regulations etc. within the varnasrama one is not considered a human being.

So one or two small points before closing here and taking questions. This is something I didn’t even touch upon but devotees should know that Srila Prabhupada has given a very clear vision. Prabhupada has written down his vision in a very clear manner identifying four areas. I will just mention them. I gave a class on that maybe last year or the year before. I consider this as like very, very essential to know and to understand that Prabhupada clearly applied his vision to spread the movement of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in four ways:

1. He referred to the holy name and books - the sankirtan movement. These are the words used by Srila Prabhupada himself, ‘the sankirtan movement.’
2. The second he called deity worship movement - establishing temples with deities
3. He called spiritual initiation movement, which means basically various congregations within our Iskcon Society - nama hatta programs, bhakti-vrksa, youth meetings.
4. Prabhupada coined as pastoral society. He was referring to varnasrama.

The first three are primarily within the framework of brahminical activities and to a large extent what our society is still largely focused upon, which is very nice and very much needed in our city temples. When we start looking at varnasrama it takes us to a different dimension and if we are not able to accommodate these four dimensions our four movements given by Srila Prabhupada or identified by Srila Prabhupada we will not succeed either individually or as a society to fulfill Srila Prabhupada’s desire. This may sound like a heavy statement. It is a heavy statement actually but it is not mine it is Prabhupada’s. It is Prabhupada’s direct statement as I quoted directly from Srila Prabhupada, that unless we understand and begin to see the positive light many of the advantages - it is a very big challenge actually for all of us, Krishna consciousness in itself is a challenge. It is a big challenge to get out of this material world, not an easy task but we must meet that challenge.

I was actually going to quote what I already quoted Srila Prabhupada’s strong statement that unless this is introduced in the society not only within the society at large but within our own devotee society or our own devotee community then things will not come out as they are meant to come out. So I will stop here actually. I don’t want to go over the time - after nine o’clock. There is a few minutes left for some comment or question regarding this.

HH : .During the class you made the point that 10% of every class should be centered around varnasrama, I wanted to get some clarification on this for sincere persons, also it is written in his purport .. HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: Good point. I will just repeat it. This was a resolution passed by the GBC whereby they encouraged the speakers to give 10% or ten minutes. Maharaj mentioned sometimes we are dealing with a theme, which would make it artificial for us to make the connection with varnasrama. So how strictly are we meant to follow this request? Well we should make an effort because actually there are many references or many opportunities, which are there. Some people may read today’s verse and not even think of varnasrama but to me it is like very obvious that we have to speak about varnasrama here and that is not the only thing we should speak about… Question: Are you a member of the GBC? HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: Yes I am a member of the GBC. I was waiting for that to come! Question: .the aggregate total of preaching in other words not in every class. it is meant to be. not artificially ten percent. HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: Thank you. Question: In relation to .. HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: If I understand your question correctly it is that people may consider that this system of varnasrama is bringing India down. Equality is how we should progress. Well lets look around and see what kind of progress. India and other countries are following the policy and the ideology of equal rights for everyone and freedom for all which is being propagated - the American way of life, the American dream which is a happy life but if we analyze what is taking place where individuals and society as a whole, all kinds of social problems are there. In all fields, in all spheres there are serious dilemmas, serious problems and it all boils down to the way we are living, the way we are abusing mother nature - it is in a very critical condition.

Unless one is able to begin accepting some spiritual knowledge, some spiritual guidance then one will have these kinds of mayayapahrta-jnana. All these leaders in different countries they are all materially intelligent but devoid of proper insight as o how we should be organizing society and what is the real happiness. Material way of life and material leadership is that people will be happy. We can have a nice material situation. But even someone who is beginning Krishna consciousness will understand that we cannot be happy in that way. We can only if we understand that we are not this body and if we take up the practice of spiritual life or Krishna consciousness. Real happiness is the domain of the spirit soul. The material world is already stamped and certified that it is dukhalayam asasvatam and we can see that. Whatever happiness there is very meager.

So due to lack of understanding this knowledge it means preaching on our part in different ways to bring about the necessary change. Prabhupada mentions we need to bring about a complete overhaul in society. That is another heavy statement. So through education, through training ourselves and others.. Prabhupada wanted to meet Indira Gandhi to recommend that the leaders should attend Bhagavatam class so that they can be proper leaders, rajarsi.

Question: Maharaj I just had a few thoughts on ho we can . Yesterday we were coming back from the goshala area and I saw one of the workers in the fields cutting the grass and chanting Hare Krishna very loudly and I noticed many devotees were walking on that path, the kirtan was so nice that most people were looking. I used to work outside and I found that most of the workers in companies and factories they .mind that they cannot chant. HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: Yes. Good point. So our time is up. If anyone has any other question you can ask me after class.

Srila Prabhupada ki, jai! Gaura-bhakti-vrnda ki, jai! [Applause.]

[Audio of this lecture and others are available on mayapur. com/downloads.]


Editor’s note: HH Bhakti Raghava Swami has send us the following:

Just a few minor but important corrections:

You wrote:
4. Prabhupada coined as pastoral society. He was referring to varnasrama.

*** I don’t recall using the word pastoral… Srila Prabhupada referred to the fourth movement as the “classless society movement” referring to varnasrama where although we work within the four varnas and asramas, we are all devotees or endeavoring to become devotees of Krishna, hence classless in the higher sense.

You transcribed: Question: Are you a member of the GBC?

*** The person asking the question was Badrinarayana prabhu. He did not ask me if I was a GBC but rather explained that HE was a GBC and being a GBC he wanted to bring some clarification to my statement about the GBC resolution passed last year regarding the 10% time to be given for the topic of varnasrama. Basically he pointed out that what is important is the spirit of the resolution, not that at every single class a speaker must give 10% during that class. He was sitting far away and the microphone possibly did not reach in time to get the full question which was more a statement than a question.

You transcribed: HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: Yes I am a member of the GBC. I was waiting for that to come!

*** Wow! Please know that I am NOT a member of the GBC (I was serving on the GBC many years ago but I am no longer a member of the GBC). I don’t have time to look at my recording, but I definitely did not reply as above written. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

You transcribed: Question: .the aggregate total of preaching in other words not in every class. it is meant to be. not artificially ten percent.

*** This is again Badrinarayana prabhu speaking explaining was I tried to explain just above…

HH Bhakti Raghava Swami: Thank you.

*** Yes, I thanked him for his input.

I apologize to any of the readers for some of the mistakes in the transcript. Trusting this finds you well. Krsne matir astu.

Your well-wisher,

Bhakti Raghava Swami

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thank you Maharaja for bringing up the point that varnashrama is necessary in terms of assisting the performance of bhakti. Readers may be interested in exactly how this happens, and a clue is given in Bhaktivinode Thakura’s “Bhaktyaloka”

“The prayasa for attaining pratistha, or fame, is the lowest of all kinds of prayasa. Although it is the lowest, it is unavoidable for many…
Therefore Sanatana Gosvami has stated in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa:
“Even if one can give up all material desires, the desire for fame is very difficult to give up. This desire for fame, which is compared to stool, is the root cause of all anarthas. Therefore, one should carefully avoid touching this stool-like desire for fame. This instruction is extremely serious. The devotee should follow this exclusive duty with special care. “”

How to give up the desire for fame, is then explained:

“A practicing devotee should pass his life in a natural occupation that is favorable to devotional service…. Making varnasrama favorable to devotional service, the householder should pass his life engaged in devotional service free from prayasa. ”

Prayasa means materialistic endeavour- and pratistha or the endeavour to be famous as a great devotee, is one such prayasa.

In varnashrama, one performs ordinary actions for the pleasure of the Lord, so one may appear as a very ordinary householder businessman, for example, and only the Lord in the heart is aware of one’s very intense devotion- thus one avoids the stool-like fame that is so difficult to give up. In addition to overcoming pratistha, which is also listed in Chaitanya Caritamrita as an upasakha, varnashrama helps one overcome the anartha of pretense- kutinati. This is clear from the conversations of Prabhupada about varnashrama, wherein he criticized the propensity for “showbottle spirituality” and recommended we follow varnashrama in ISKCON —as a solution to devotees falling down and becoming discouraged or falling down and engaging in pretense. Through varnashrama, anyone from any position can become perfect- because it is honest. It is also satisfying to the devotee, because it engages him according to his natural qualities and taste. This is explained thoroughly in my book “Varnashrama the Eight-Petalled Lotus”, which also details the various ways VA can help our movement- and beyond it- through providing quality leadership (guna). If you (or anyone)would like a copy, please email me:

Comment posted by niscala on March 7th, 2010

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